Need some help with the minor pentatonic scale...

6stringstrat · Sea Monkey Joined: 27 Jan 2008 Posts: 13

Im trying to actually learn the theory behind these scales. My soloing kinda sucks, all I've done is force myself to memorize tabs to play other's songs. I'm sick of it, so now trying to undo the 'damage' and actually learn something useful.

I understand the 5 shapes, diagrams and how they're played on the fingerboard. I can look at any minor pentatonic scale mapped out across the fingerboard and play a nice solo, as long as Im looking at the scale. Once I look away, forget about it.

My question is, how do you actually play them along with some backing music? Lets assume the backing chords are plain old C, G, D, F, E. When soloing over those chords should I be switching positions in time with the chords so that my solo follows the C minor pentatonic, G minor pentatonic, D minor pentatonic etc... so it sounds in tune?

The five shapes follow a specific order, so I sould be learning them in order right? Should I be trying to memorize each key's positions across the entire fingerboard for these scales? Or is there a better technique?

Im really into blues music, but I want to get these down first then the worry about the blues. I was trying to play along with Gibbons solo from Blue Jeans Blues (ZZ Top) because it sounds great and its slow. Should I be playing that entirely with the b minor pentatonic scale?

thanks in advance for any advice you can give

Matney X · Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:36 pm Post subject:

The blues scale is a variaton on the pentitonic scale. In face, it's JUST like the pentitonic scale with the addition of the tri-tone.

It looks like this, in first position. If you know your pentitonic shapes, you should be able to add that nice coloring note into the rest of the shapes, too.

e ------------------------------1-4-
B --------------------------1-4-----
G -------------------1-3-4---------
D ---------------1-3---------------
A -------1-2-3---------------------
E --1-4----------------------------

One thing that REALLY helped me as a solist are these play-along books by Jamey Aebersold. They have one called Blues in All 12 Keys, or something similar to that, and you should be able to pick it up at any music store that sells sheet music. (Guitar Center, sadly, doesn't seem to carry them.)

Until you can read music, and understand theory, (which is something I really recommend you know how to do, at least a little bit. It helps in everything, I promise), just play by ear, and learn to trust your judgement on what sounds good.

As for the Gibbons solo, I don't know... I haven't touched it.
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"Have we grown so hard we can't feel right or wrong, or have we grown so cold we just don't care?" - Nave King.

Matney X · Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:41 pm Post subject:

Also, a bit more on the pentitonic scale. I only know two of the shapes, and only one of them well. However, I've learned a few licks over my time, and learned how to transpose them for whatever key we're playing in.

Now, you'll probably NEVER hear me say this again (because I'm a music major, and it's against everything I've ever been taught)... you don't NEED to know everything... just enough. Focusing too long on scale patterns and how to properly build a chord sometimes take you away from the root of the blues, which is pure emotion.

Those old delta players knew almost nothing about what they were playing, but they put their hearts into it, and it didn't matter. They trusted their ears, and they trusted their guts, and it pushed music out into a completely different realm than anyone before them had even tried.

Anyway... Now that I've said that... Learn your scales, notes, and how to build a chord, and you'll go farther than most guitar players ever do. You might not be as flashy as some, but you'll be able to sit in and "fake it" in almost ANY style.
_________________
"Have we grown so hard we can't feel right or wrong, or have we grown so cold we just don't care?" - Nave King.

gpower · Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:01 am Post subject:

I kinda find that the more I play around with the scale, the more things just start falling into place. If I use a particular lick, for instance, I begin to see where else in the 5 patterns that lick fit's. From that I've also begun moving up and down the neck much more, instead off across the neck (staying within one pattern). In a back door sort of way I'm getting to know the whole finger board better.
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mrod · Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:22 am Post subject:

if you are playing in the key of a, just play the penatonic in a, you can play all 5 positions in order -asending or desending or skip around. you dont need to change keys to chord patterns. at least 75% of all rock solos, blues, etc are built aroud this. try this- pick a song in nay key, say -a, now play along starting your penotonic in 5 fret a, now go to 7 fret and play the 2nd position, go to the 3rd and so on. you are playing in the key of a throughout and the chord changes do not effest what you are doing, becuase the song is in the key of a, hope this helps.

sparky · Ferret Joined: 03 Jun 2006 Posts: 103

Using the A idea from previous post....
If your palying over an Ami and in a pentatonic kind'a mood then the a minor pent. in five forms is a good rudiment.
If your hanging on an A7th then you can flip between an Ami. pent and an A major pent. (Clapton (and almost any other of the acknowledged gawds) do a lot of this)...
It's not as mystifying as it seems cause if you know the five minor pent shapes (C , A, G, E, D forms) then you know the five major pentatonic shapes .
They are the exact same forms (C,A,G,E,D), they just are based on different starting notes.

So for A7th think A minor pent....
'and'
A major pent....

Now for the tricky bit the parent scale for an A Major pent is formed from the relative minor(6th note) of the A major scale or F#. So you can play F#mi pent. over an A7th (= A MAJOR PENTATONIC) , or an Ami. pent over an A7th.

Now start recognizing the shapes and where the major form is relative to the minor form. Flip between the two in one position on the kneck and in time the universe will be revealed....

ie.)...
an Aminor pent @ 5th fret is fingered in the e form
an AMajor Pent @ 5th is (parent scale=F#min pent)is fingered in the D form)

So work out the other forms relations and kaboom your a hero...

(Some weirdness , that no one ever pointed out , but probably most players know....)

When you play every note in the major and minor pentatonic you have played the Mixolidian scale. Although to my ear flipping between the major and minor pents sounds way more musical than my feeble ideas with modal scales.

Good luck

Don't fret ???? 'er I mean continue to fret ( the guitar , that is)

Sparky